tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post8001684453755463716..comments2024-03-24T08:18:33.058-04:00Comments on Conversations Over Chai: Dead As A Dodo (Hopefully!)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-6429219789809272272014-02-13T16:25:29.374-05:002014-02-13T16:25:29.374-05:00you'll see me around spamming your posts with ...<i>you'll see me around spamming your posts with my thoughts :D</i><br />Please. Feel free. :) It is good to have a community of like-minded people, who have definite opinions, even if we do not agree with each other all the time. (<i>Especially</i> when we do not agree with each other.) <br /><br />Yes, it is all in good faith and at some point, we may even have to agree to disagree. And that is fine too. The world doesn't run like McDonald hamburgers, all clones of each other. To me, that is what makes it interesting. And when someone disagrees with a long-held opinion of mine, then it does make me look at it from another perspective. It is all to the good. :)Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-8722711818161566792014-02-13T15:34:29.705-05:002014-02-13T15:34:29.705-05:00No need to be sorry!
I actually enjoyed reading...No need to be sorry! <br /><br /><br />I actually enjoyed reading your thoughts. And you do make some interesting points that I hadn't thought of. And your right sometimes all it takes is one comment to set us down a certain train of thought--that we will vehemently try to defend as we analyze and take a part someone else's opinion (but aren't those discussions always the most fun lol). It's all in good faith though.<br /><br /><br />Thanks for the post though, it's nice to engage in discussion over these types of topics (I'm relegated to the internet for said discussions since nobody I know has any interest in Hindi films lol)---you'll see me around spamming your posts with my thoughts :DThundercatKHOhttp://yehhaibollywood.wordpress.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-84163047344708551632014-02-13T12:25:22.345-05:002014-02-13T12:25:22.345-05:00Thundercat, I'm sorry. Sometimes, I am thinkin...Thundercat, I'm sorry. Sometimes, I am thinking out aloud, not exactly disagreeing with what you say. :) And yes, things make so much sense to me when I'm thinking it out in my head that I am often flabbergasted that the people I talk to don't immediately get my point. *grin* <br /><br />I do think that films can be used to influence people, but it's a tight line to walk. FOr instance, I don't think stopping people smoking or drinking on screen is going to help people stop smoking or drinking in real life. Where does artistic license begin? And where does gratuitous inclusions end? <br /><br />Again, thoughts that spring into mind when I read your comment; it's not necessarily a disagreement with what you are saying. It's the same way when I talk in real life to like-minded people. Discussions can get very heated because someone's opinion just sets off a train of thought, and we parse every word and nuance. *grin* Thanks for the general discussion. That is exactly what I hope posts like these do - get people thinking. <br /><br /><i>I'm 25 and if a 45 year old came up to me and made a pass at me I would not find it romantic or endearing</i> <br /><br />Depends on the 45 year old. :) The fact also is that these 45 year old men are <i>not</i> playing 45 year old men on screen, are they?Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-41545728633514875252014-02-13T01:09:55.350-05:002014-02-13T01:09:55.350-05:00I didn't mean to say that films are responsibl...I didn't mean to say that films are responsible for everything bad that happens in society; and you’re right it isn't fair to dump the blame on films—after all film is a medium of expression. What I meant was that popular culture is popular because it is able to reach a mass audience, it captures all of the contradictions that exist in society and speaks to all of us in some way—perhaps that could be used as a tool to help usher in new models and more progressive archetypes as opposed to holding on to and repeating the regressive standards of a bygone era. (if that makes sense...t made sense in my head but it doesn't always translate well onto paper--or in this case the screen)<br /><br />And I certainly don’t mean to say that there is no personal responsibility on the part of the viewer. Of course we are ultimately responsible for the decisions we make, and I think that with a medium like film (and television) we need to keep in mind that the image is what reigns supreme; people need to engage more with the images, perhaps they should take a critical eye to the images they are presented with and understand how to read the text of the image. Because the world as it is reflected on TV and film screens often only bears a passing resemblance to the world that most of us live in (like the 45 year old male college student romancing a 20 year old female. That would never fly in real life, I'm 25 and if a 45 year old came up to me and made a pass at me I would not find it romantic or endearing--more than anything I would find it creepy and unsettling. But it's totally acceptable on screen.)ThundercatKHOhttp://yehhaibollywood.wordpress.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-8068963846385033442014-02-12T23:45:57.416-05:002014-02-12T23:45:57.416-05:00I don't know, re. This whole thing about socie...I don't know, re. This whole thing about society being influenced by films. I agree that it does happen - more so today, because the reach of films has extended. We are bombarded with images 24/7. Back then, you waited breathlessly for a film to be released, you watched it in the theatres, and perhaps if you were lucky, you caught it on a re-run. Today, just one click and you can watch the same messages over and over and over again. <br /><br /><br />That said, I don't know if it is fair to dump everything bad that happens in society on films. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Or that there is a very firm dividing line between reality and fantasy? Or is it that 'children' (I use the word advisedly) are taking longer to grow up? This is not a waving of the 'in the good old days' flag, but we did seem to be mature earlier. I mean, look at our films - you never saw Raj/Dilip/Dev in 'college'. Or even Dharmendra/Amitabh/Vinod Khanna. They were men, out in a man's world. Today, our 40+ heroes are college students. <br /><br /><br /><br />So perhaps it *is* that our audiences <i>are</i> too immature to see that division. Or perhaps, the proliferation of social media has removed the division between fantasy and reality? Because 90% of the time, FB is where you portray a sanitised, photo-shopped, narcissistic view of yourself. And, no, I don't blame FB. Or Twitter. They are tools. Like any other tool, it depends on what you use it for.Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-88327002259912006122014-02-12T15:30:09.535-05:002014-02-12T15:30:09.535-05:00Great post, hopefully most of these are dead and g...Great post, hopefully most of these are dead and gone (except for the disguised infiltration of the villain's den--that's ones just entertaining). <br /><br />I agree with with you that films are in a way a reflection of our society , but I also believe that society is heavily influenced by what is shown in films. Seeing as society's Ideals are malleable I would personally like to see some changes in film on that front; especially in regard to gender roles and stereotypes. I find it extremely tragic that even in the 21st century the Bollywood heroine is still basically a stereotype, a cardboard cutout. I am a firm believer that popular culture can help shape and change societal norms--come on Bollywood let's see you change for the better.ThundercatKHOhttp://yehhaibollywood.wordpress.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-10873999090535695902014-01-20T12:50:06.317-05:002014-01-20T12:50:06.317-05:00Of course she doesn't! What would happen to Bh...<i>Of course</i> she doesn't! What would happen to <i>Bharatiya sanksar</i> if it did? Women are not supposed to like sex, you see; they are only supposed to lie back and think of England. And besides, women who are so forward are not the ones you take home to mother. <br /><br />Ugh! I get the creeps just typing that out!Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-11422738253616448612014-01-20T12:48:10.897-05:002014-01-20T12:48:10.897-05:00Oh, neither have I. It is just that films, in gene...Oh, neither have I. It is just that films, in general, have to exaggerate everything, make it larger than life, so to speak. That is why I said 'aspirational'. This is how the wealthy are, we are told, this is what you can also be if only you -----. <br /><br />I can empathise with your father. :)Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-38597146007665452532014-01-20T12:45:57.520-05:002014-01-20T12:45:57.520-05:00You are welcome, Nalini. :) I'm glad you enjoy...You are welcome, Nalini. :) I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as you did the film. I will get around to reviewing one of his other films soon.Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-49731042982814981812014-01-20T12:29:27.138-05:002014-01-20T12:29:27.138-05:00Oh, the fast-forward girl still doesn't get th...Oh, the fast-forward girl still doesn't get the guy; they keep her alive though, thank god. Watch Cocktail to see how that line pans out today.<br /><br />The post is very good. KudosBoby Mohannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-62689600393046183192014-01-20T09:44:03.719-05:002014-01-20T09:44:03.719-05:00I have yet to see a rich man moving around in a su...I have yet to see a rich man moving around in a suit at home or even outside on a casual visit, for instance in Aan Milo Sajna you see my father going to meet his prospective son-in-law Rajesh Khanna's mother all togged up in a suit. Even when he meets Rajesh Khanna for the first time he is in a suit. I used to find it hilarous, and guess what after constantly wearing suits in films, my father used to avoid wearing them as far as possible while attending film land functions. Sometimes for weddings, he would go all traditional in a typical Bengali dhoti and kurta. I still remember my father attired in a casual shirt for the silver jubilee function of Anupama.Shilpi Bosenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-53659985974067152972014-01-20T04:24:48.351-05:002014-01-20T04:24:48.351-05:00Rather a delayed thanks, Anu, for reviewing Chasme...Rather a delayed thanks, Anu, for reviewing Chasme Baddoor. It came at a time when I life was specially hectic, but I really enjoyed it today. CB was one of my all-time favourites, the boys, Deepti Naval, the 'kaali ghodi' which responds only to Farooque Shaikh, the corner paan shop and last but not the least, Delhi. Thanks again.Nalini Ikkandathnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-65258524164495459692014-01-19T22:31:40.352-05:002014-01-19T22:31:40.352-05:00Harvey! Welcome back! :) And thank you for your ve...Harvey! Welcome back! :) And thank you for your very kind words. :) 'tis good to make people laugh, no?<br /><br /><i>"Young revolutionaries"</i> <br />*gurgle!* <br /><br /><i>Hamara Hindi films ka kya hoga</i> <br /><br /><br /><i>Jo hoga achcha hi hoga</i> - at least, where the most egregious of these tropes are concerned. I agree with you about the villains' den songs, however. I got a lot of entertainment out of that trope. :)Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-40522087626263581262014-01-19T22:27:44.587-05:002014-01-19T22:27:44.587-05:00Kya Kehna was one of the most regressive films I h...<i>Kya Kehna</i> was one of the most regressive films I had seen, and I couldn't understand how the heck it was made out to be this film that empowered women. :( <br /><br /><br /><br />I think the point is that Aamir doesn't claim anything of any sort - and I don't think (in my opinion) that his heroines have forgettable roles - for instance, Kareena may not have had much screen time in <i>3 Idiots</i> but she was certainly not forgettable (and I say this as someone who does not like Kareena most of the time), neither did Rani or Kareena have forgettable roles in <i>Talaash</i>. The rest of the time, his movies are about male protagonists without much scope for female characters, and I have no complaints about that. People should be there only if they are needed in the film, instead of appearing for the requisite songs and dances. (All, in my opinion...)Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-7444190454429593712014-01-19T18:24:34.467-05:002014-01-19T18:24:34.467-05:00tch, tch, tch, these young revolutionaries, wantin...tch, tch, tch, these young revolutionaries, wanting to change 'apna' Hindi films, our rich traditions.<br />Arre if all these good plot cornerstones disappear, hamare Hindi films ka kya hoga?<br />Well-written piece this!<br />Was ROTFL!<br />Agree with all the points except for climax song in villain's den! That has been my fav since my childhood and in my younger years was my ambition to do this in real life too. I hope it celebrates its come-back soon.<br />Bidding adieu to all the others.harveynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-62582806098417059902014-01-19T17:57:35.551-05:002014-01-19T17:57:35.551-05:00Enjoyed reading this post. Thanks!
The first few p...Enjoyed reading this post. Thanks!<br />The first few points reminded me of an acclaimed film called 'KYA KEHNA' (2000) starring Preity Zinta. It seems many of these tropes were present in that 'progressive' film alone, even Saif Ali Khan as a college student. <br />I have never enjoyed Aamir Khan's college roles in the last decade, and it is amazing how the heroines in his 'great' films seem to have forgettable minor roles and he gets away with it. <br />While all these tropes should go away, I quite enjoyed 'songs in the villain's den' a lot.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-4237172354944185792014-01-19T16:27:45.819-05:002014-01-19T16:27:45.819-05:00SoY,
Don't get me started on the saas-bahu s...SoY, <br /><br />Don't get me started on the <i>saas-bahu</i> serials on television! God, they are a blight on mankind! As for Ekta Kapoor, there is only one thing that drives her - commerce. This has nothing to do with the way she was brought up, or her attitudes towards women, and everything to do with what will give her the highest TRPs. <br /><br />I don't know about the TV serial - but <i>Saraswatichandra</i> was a novel that was set in 19th century Gujarat, and reflects the mores of the time. If, in transposing it to a more modern era, the makers have not reflected the changing times, then that is on the makers. Why adapt a novel about feudal practices and set in modern times? <br /><br />I have no issue with young women seeking to bed the hero, if it is a part of the narrative. But then, I have never seen female sexuality as any less than that of a man's, and it makes sense to display it as not something to be ashamed of, or to think of a woman as 'cheap' because she actually dares to say (as Vidya Balan put is so pithily) that she 'likes it, wants it, and needs it'. My problem with any film exploring female sexuality arises only when they use it for titillation, or to show it as a negative - the women who espouse that must be 'baaaad'. <br /><br />It is an interesting point you raise, though. How do you empower women to stand up for their own rights - emotional, mental, physical, sexual, and still not make it the new fad-of-the-moment'? How do you present it in a way that teaches them to take charge of their own choices, and not encourage promiscuity?Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-54945404951620668222014-01-19T16:15:24.450-05:002014-01-19T16:15:24.450-05:00Ha ha ha! It is a lowering thought, though. I was...Ha ha ha! It is a lowering thought, though. I was about 16 when we had new tenants and she had a daughter who was around 9. I used to call her 'aunty'. Now that I think about it, she must have been in her mid-to-late twenties! My biggest shock came when I had just got married, and the children in the building where my husband lived called me <i>'maami'</i> I was 23! I was stunned!Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-51923776073297118012014-01-19T16:13:30.679-05:002014-01-19T16:13:30.679-05:00Thank you, Shilpi. Loved your anecdote - out of th...Thank you, Shilpi. Loved your anecdote - out of the mouths of babes, huh? In much the same vein, I remember my nephew, when he was about 4 years old, watching a death scene and informing his grandfather very seriously - <i>Now his photo will come on the wall, and they will put a garland around it.</i><br /><br /><br />About the suit and dressing gown - how true! I suppose it was to show how wealthy they were, and what class of society they moved in. If you were upwardly mobile, you were usually rather westernised, and I suppose this was one way of showing the difference between the wealthy hero or heroine and the poor (read '<i>bharatiya sanskar-wala/wali</i> ) heroine/hero, who will be dressed traditionally.<br /><br /><br />That last dialogue - I wonder which parent actually said that in real life~ They were more likely to make sure the daughter was well and truly chaperoned. :)Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-49284322650239866492014-01-19T16:08:04.901-05:002014-01-19T16:08:04.901-05:00Lalitha, my darling woman, didn't I mention th...Lalitha, my darling woman, didn't I mention those tropes, hmm? Considering the colleges that Karan Johar (especially!) thinks to show on screen, I would venture to say that <i>no one</i> in India (or anywhere else, for that matter) would have attended a college like that! <br /><br />About the 'checking pulse and diagnosing pregnancy' - I stand corrected by many people. Apparently, it is well-known practice in <i>many</i> cultures - there are people (not necessarily medical doctors) trained in the use of herbs and traditional medicines who are aces at diagnosing ailments just by the movement of the pulse. Who knew? <br /><br />Waiting for your 'more random thoughts'. Ask J. I'm sure he'll come up with many more. :)Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-50448567582363852052014-01-19T16:03:54.349-05:002014-01-19T16:03:54.349-05:00Hi Anu, welcome to my blog. Thank you for the appr...Hi Anu, welcome to my blog. Thank you for the appreciation. Need I say it is that which makes me keep the blog going? :) <br /><br />Hopefully (hopefully!), the trope you suggest has disappeared. I don't see mothers being that important in films any more, not to the extent that <i>Mere paas maa hai</i>resonated with a generation of cinegoers. I would say that mothers such as Raakhee had agency, insofar as it was allowed her (within the parameters of that role) - the desire for revenge. It is her need that fuels the sons' vengeance, no? <br /><br />Thanks for visiting, and commenting. It's always a pleasure to hear from my readers.Anu Warrierhttp://anuradhawarrier.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-73473804933043922102014-01-19T05:54:27.290-05:002014-01-19T05:54:27.290-05:00Anu,
Probably we are rejoicing the demise of the r...Anu,<br />Probably we are rejoicing the demise of the regressive female characters too soon. They have come back on the more pervasive medium, the small screen, with a vengeance. They all have some common characteristics - they are young!, educated!, they are ideal bahus with high ideals. They suffer and accept the indignities, insults, violence and worse, inflicted upon them by their husbands or sundry in-laws. They pretend before their parents that they are happy, because they don't want to trouble them. To be sure, there are some in the family who are sympathetic to them, who ask them to protest and speak the truth. But, that would be selfish, and they maintain their noble and exalted standards.<br /><br /><br />Who are the audience for this trash? Women, of course, and I dare say that are not all illiterate and village types. Who is offering this to the women? A young lady called Ekata Kapoor. Being a daughter of Jeetendra, I believe she has grown up in liberal surroundings. So, from where has she got her aesthetics?<br /><br /><br />A refreshing change was Saraswatichandra by Sanjay Leela Bhansali. Though from a Gujarati traditional household, Kumud is bold, she makes her choices. But, lo and behold, after a few episodes, for some reason, Saraswatichandra sends a message that he can't come for the wedding. Instead of trying to find out the reason, she agrees to marry anyone her father chooses, on the same wedding day, because her Bapu's honour is paramount. So far so good, but the husband turns out to be a monster, alcoholic and debauch. Kumud now accepts the beatings and everything, because of her Bapu's honor, and because she would win the heart of her husband by her love. You feel like shooting the girl and SL Bhansali.<br /><br /><br />In the films, the other extreme of the young girls now taking the initiative to bed the hero - I am not sure, if this is the change we should commend.<br /><br /><br />I have no problems with other comic tropes, they in many ways define Bollywood.Songs Of Yorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-6396372109364446532014-01-18T21:10:24.545-05:002014-01-18T21:10:24.545-05:00By the way, there was this one guy in our class wh...By the way, there was this one guy in our class who was around 30 (he had been working for a few years and may have been younger for all I know, but I was only 19 and he looked OLD to me) and he was known as "uncle".LAlithanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-66200214891083172042014-01-18T12:40:27.743-05:002014-01-18T12:40:27.743-05:00Wonderful post Anu, this is something we used to o...Wonderful post Anu, this is something we used to often discuss at home. That bit you mentioned about the the heroine or any female character vomiting and the the others immediately guessing she is pregnant reminded me of a funny incident. Many, many years ago my neighbour's son who was then around 3 or 4 years old used to spend most of his time in our home. As his mother used to watch T.V. he had more or less begun to understand what Hindi films were all about. Once we were watching some film in his presence and some female character (I do not remember the film nor the character) started vomiting, this little fellow very knowledgeably informed us<i>usne ulti kya ab usko bachcha hoga</i> we burst out laughing.<br />As for some of the other typical scenes in the past, the hero or or heroine's rich father invariably wore a suit no matter where he went, even if he was at home, and if he was relaxing then he had to be in an expensive dressing gown. I saw my father doing this in film after film. Then when the hero sang a sad song he would sit at the piano which was usually placed near his mansion's staircase and since he was sad, he was always seen draped in a shawl. Then there were the fight scenes, usually the fights took place in a godown of sorts with boxes piled up, why the boxes were kept was never explained.<br />Once cinematographer Kamal Bose (his note worthy films include Sujata, Khamoshi, Safar, Dharmatma and so on) laughingly remarked that when the hero and heroine meet in the presence of either the hero or heroine's father, the father invariably says <i>tumlog dono baat karo mera kuch zaroori kaam hai</i>what <i>zaroori kaam</i>he has I have never understood. Oh I could go on, like my father used to get tired of constantly giving some standard expressions because that is what the director and the cinematographers wanted.Shilpi Bosenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2309362817539389132.post-25425731094430534362014-01-18T12:04:01.567-05:002014-01-18T12:04:01.567-05:00Here are two that I thought were particularly funn...Here are two that I thought were particularly funny -the one where the 40 plus hero is still in college and somehow manages to come "first class pass" or " university mein first", even without ever shown touching his books. The trend continues, with Shah Rukh Khan Hrithik Roshan and others. In fact I remember one movie where one of the characters was supposed to have failed in that class for at least two years, making it sound more like school rather than college. And which college has students breaking out in songs and dances at the drop of a hat? Or maybe I just attended the wrong colleges!<br />I also like it when the hero and heroine start singing and are joined by all these other characters, who already know the right lyrics and steps for the song and dance which the lead pair are going to sing. That is because I myself would need at least a year of practice (and I am optimistic here).<br />But, on the other hand, a neighbor mentioned the other day about this doctor who felt her pulse and correctly proclaimed that she was pregnant! So maybe those doctors did know what they were talking about!<br />More random thoughts to follow!Lalithanoreply@blogger.com